tragedy
09/11/04
Gothamist interviews Kevin Walsh of Forgotten NY.
12:01 AM | Comments (26) | TrackBack (0)
Comments
Sheesh! they're ghouls, aren't they? :-( Thinking of you and NY today, Mike.
Liz
Posted by: redcountess at September 11, 2004 07:57 AM
sad stuff...i was there for the 2 1/2 year thing...it was sad
Posted by: goob at September 11, 2004 10:31 AM
Those tragedy books make me sick to my stomach. Every time I see someone selling or buying them I want to punch them out.
Posted by: corie at September 11, 2004 11:09 AM
Those books used to have the title "Terror" on them. The "Tragedy" thing is the second version.
People are upset at these books being sold, but what about Barnes and Noble selling $30 coffee table books with basically the same content? The guys on the street and the books in the store sell and make money off of the same event? I understand the need for historic documents, but at the same time I think the supposedly legit publishers are just as crass and greedy.
Oh, and thank you CNN for selling another DVD based on a tragedy.
Posted by: Dazzle2112 at September 11, 2004 11:20 AM
Making money of a tragedy, sick fucks.... I hate those bastards.
Posted by: Sean at September 11, 2004 12:25 PM
All of it sucks, but I find it particularly disrespectful to be making a profit by selling them on the site of the tragedy. You cannot walk past Ground Zero without weaving through tables of "tragedy" crap...and hoards of tourist eating it up. There is aboslutely no taste in that.
Posted by: corie at September 11, 2004 01:13 PM
isnt america already about making money off tragedy? natural disaters raise our GDP for petes sake!
Posted by: Rob at September 11, 2004 06:55 PM
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I was thinking the exact same thing as corie (from above) as the page was loading...
Excellent work getting into the site in the second to last photo, keep it up! Cheers to NYC and all who experienced 9/11/01 firsthand!
Posted by: randombanner at September 11, 2004 07:45 PM
I remember exactly where I was on 09/11/01. I was on the train going into Chicago and this guy got off his cell phone and said "A plane just hit the World Trade Center" I said "Oh you mean a little two passenger plane?!?..right?" "Did they not see the World Trade Center?" I forgot what the man who was on the cell phone said afterwards...
Little did I know though... I got to work, and found myself ducking into a corner tavern to watch the TV. Very sad, and I will always remember where I was that day and what Chicago was like. I will remember how carefree I was on 09/10/01. If there is a "hell" I am sure that the architects to the events on 09/11/01 are in it...or are being tormented in some way.
Anyway, take care everyone. Try to live life helping someone. That is what I feel we are here to do.
Posted by: Chris at September 11, 2004 08:21 PM
I remember when I visited ground zero last summer, a woman of Asian descent selling these books and postcards. A guy, who saw her doing this, yelled at her about making profit off the tragedy. I don't think she understood because she was jabbering in mandarin(I think). I thought the guy was going to attack her. Just goes to show you what people will do to make money.
Posted by: Ken at September 11, 2004 08:44 PM
If the people hawking stuff are doing it, it's because they're making money. If they're making money, it's because someone is buying their stuff. If someone is buying the stuff it's because...I dunno.
By now I've kind of given up trying to figure any of it out, much less be upset about it. It is what it is.
Posted by: Moe at September 11, 2004 09:09 PM
I don't think there is a way to document the tragedy without seeming distasteful. I even refused to take a school field trip to the local museum in high school to view the traveling Ramses exhibit because I refused to support graverobbers.
However, I will (and do) collect documentation regarding 9/11 (and other historical events) in order to have it for my great-grandchildren. History will always have a page for events like this, but pages from that time in history should be preserved as historical documents.
Even though they are all in bad taste. Including CNN, NYT, and those guys on the sidewalks. It's all about $.
Posted by: sirshannon at September 12, 2004 03:02 AM
Lots of people & organizations had profited from 9/11: Giuliani is shameless, as are many other politicians; Christians are shameless (with their "get them while they're down" approach to proselytizing); book publishers; terrorist groups; contractors, &c.
All these have benefited from 9.11.
There are 2 great 1hr documentaries airing on the History Channel now, which reveal a lot of what is going on.
Posted by: Rob at September 12, 2004 01:57 PM
I hate those Ground Zero hawkers. Those tragedy books are bad enough, but how about those "Ground Zero" baseball caps? Every time I see someone wearing one (usually a tourist), I have to resist an urge to drop everything, grab the wearer by the lapels and shout "are you nuts? Do you think this is fucking Disneyland???"
Posted by: Mitch45 at September 13, 2004 12:20 PM
People sell those things because people buy those things. And in all honesty, do you think street vendors are "raking it in"? Many of the people selling stuff all over this city including the WTC site are doing so because they don't have the choice between a job in one office or another. Most of them don't have blogs or know what a blog is.
It's all sickening on one level, but expected on another.
For example, I often go to J&R Music World to check out what they have. For a full year after 9-11 they had HUGE big screen TVs showing slideshows of pictures from 9-11 on it! Yeah, they had some stupid "I rememberance..." crap printed out and posted near the windows. But they were just as crass as the street vendors you're mocking. And they are right next to Ground Zero.
People are immediately viscerally shocked by seeing those vendors at Ground Zero from the WTC stuff. But it was nauseating to me walking down Court Street in Brooklyn and seeing tons of 9-11 books being hawked in the window, while outside on the street tons of 9-11 memorial and faded "Missing" signs were on walls and lampposts.
I think this is discussion shows exactly how crappy it is to be a street vendor. You're already in a crappy position to make a living. And then because of the immediacy of being right in front of you and not having the buffer of a counter or sign to divide you from the customer, people natually give street vendors more shit than others.
Posted by: Dazzle2112 at September 13, 2004 02:47 PM
I don't think it's the vendor's fault-- it's the city's. It just should never have been allowed..at the very least in front of the site itself. Period. It's not a lack of buffer. It's poor taste.
Posted by: corie at September 13, 2004 09:10 PM
Now Corie, really. I was here on 9.11. I'm still here now. I am every bit as horrified by street vendors profiting off of this as anyone else. But to suggest the city should have stepped in and banned all sales of such products is nearly as crass as selling them in the first place. It's a shame these things have to be sold. It's a further shame that tourists from Iowa need to buy them. Yet, I have faith in the people to govern themselves. Such a viewpoint leaves me often disappointed, obviously; yet whether I choose to agree or disagree with people's motives, I am forced to (like Moe) take it for what it is. People make decisions. This is not a city issue.
Posted by: Malcolm at September 13, 2004 11:04 PM
As Malcolm says, you can't ban what people ultimately want. For example the city came in and "cleaned up" 42nd Street, and you know what? The same business still occurs on nearby streets.
If people didn't buy that stuff, people wouldn't sell it. Capitalism requires a market. And when all is said and done, the fact that the hole in a ground that was the WTC is a tourist attraction is a bit crazy. At this point, it's just a huge construction site. It's not like in the period immediately following 9-11 where people wanted to gawk at the wreckage. At this point, the fact that people want to stare and take picture of an empty hole is a bit dusturbing.
Those books are not great, but don't blame the vendors. Technically speaking hot dogs are not that great--at least anymore--when you get them from street vendors, but people still buy them.
Few people ever willfully admit to buying things that crass, but ultimately if there was no market there would be no products.
Posted by: Dazzle2112 at September 14, 2004 12:47 PM
I think vendors are not more shit than media. I am from Spain, it was about 15:00 when first airplane crashed, prime time, news time on tv, comercials dind't stop, it was a good deal for publicited products. One month later, spanish tv programmed a documentary about 11.9, again a good deal for marketing agencies, thousands of people following the show, commercials watched by this thousands.Marketing agencies magangers have never been at ground zero, wear nice cloths, they don't need to be vendors. Actually big tragedies reflect big mistakes of our societies, in this case, that we are critic with poor vendors and forget rich tragedy vendors, earning lots of money at tv, Or do you thing tv channels show 11.9 documentaries for free?
Posted by: giork at September 15, 2004 07:42 PM
As a photographer and someone who loves looking at other people's photographs, and someone who -- much like the rest of the world -- was glued to the television in the days following 9/11, I understand the desire to see images of the WTC horror. I don't think it's ghoulish to want to see and contemplate evil. People like to explore, in their thoughts, all manner of unhappy events and possibilities. It brings clarity to our opinions and perspectives. Nor do I find it contemptible for vendors to hawk such pictures. As others have pointed out, it's no different than Barnes & Noble selling 9/11 picture books. Or The New York Times publishing photos. Or NBC running a 9/11 special. And I don't think there's anything wrong with serving a need and making a profit. I have certain problems with the capitalist model -- there never seems to be a limit to what is "enough" -- but I have no problem with selling 9/11 photos if people want to buy them. What is contemptible is selling water for $10 a gallon after a hurricane or cargoing South Americans to the United States inside sealed shipping containers for a fee.
Posted by: joey harrison at September 16, 2004 12:03 AM
Just ny .02, when I go down to ground zero, I've seen the street vendors selling their stuff. At first I thought it was kinda sleazy, capitilizing on the misfortune of others, but as George Carlin said long ago (on his 7 words you can't say on tv album) some schmuck will buy it! I can understand some people considering this as shameless exploitation. On the other hand, I remember when I was a kid my parents driving down to Florida one winter. This was before I-95 was built and we drove trough Lumberton, NC. In the middle of the town was a stage built in the early 1800's that was originally used for slave auctions. I asked why would such a horrible thing be allowed to stand. My wise dear old dad exlained to me that as great as this country is unfortunately this was part of our history and we need to remember the bad as well as the good.
Posted by: Maddaddy at September 16, 2004 10:17 PM
Intolerance rears its ugly head again at the World Trade Center: "Every time I see someone selling or buying them I want to punch them out." How is that a fitting tribute, corie? Sounds more like prejudice to me. Violent art has a place in this city. Tourists from Iowa have a place in this city. Vendors have a place in this city. Without them, it's not New York. And, these books are our history!
Posted by: pine at September 19, 2004 04:22 AM
I can assure you all that those booksellers at the WTC are not driving off at the end of the day in BMWs. If you had mouths to feed at home and few prospects, would you turn down this easy money? As has been said, people don't have to buy these books.
What about people who sell pretzels or bagels down there? Aren't they there because they know there will be a crowd? Aren't they also guilty of profiting from tragedy?
What really turns my stomach are the tourists who approach me on the subway with big grins on their faces "Can you tell me how to get to Ground Zero?" They're so excited to go see this mass burial ground. Like a child with candy. And, by the way, I mean American tourists.
If you want to get angry at people profiting from tragedy, why not start with people who could more obviously afford not to? For a start, Richard Perle?
Posted by: nwono at September 22, 2004 11:20 AM
There is more tragedy in the world than 9/11.
Posted by: JK at October 8, 2004 10:19 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how double minded people are these days. I for one still can't grasp the fact that such evil can possible exist in the mind/heart of any man and a book picturing the 9/11 attack would be a welcome addition to my home to continue to remind myself how evil man really can be.
Speaking of evil; my guess is that the people complaining about someone making a profit on selling these historic books are for one bleeding heart liberals who cant stand anyone making a profit on anything but more importantly (speaking of evil people) have no problem at all for doctors to make between, what, $300. to 500.00, 1,000 times a day per baby murdered as a matter of convenience? Now there's a profit mankind needs to be concerned about. But the liberals can't see that, no way, no how. Talk about screwed up people.
Posted by: William Boggs at November 20, 2005 10:44 AM
I suppose you COULD ask these arseholes who encourage tolerance, and those who gleefully visit the Ground Zero site, how they would feel if THEY THEMSELVES had been cremated or expunged from the 96th floor into midair, by Dick Cheney's intwernational collaborators. Since we're being cheap here.